THE SNOW LION BUDDHIST NEWS & CATALOG

KB: Yes, they are very nice. The commentary by the Fifth Sharmarpa on Mahamudra is from that booklet by His Holiness. And two other Mahamudra selections in Straight from the Heart—a short one by Mipham Rinpoche and another by Kunkyen Dashi Oser—were given to me by Khenpo Tsultrim Gyamtso at some point.

Many of the Mahamudra instructions seem to me almost like somebody talking to you. They're very directly applicable in meditation. It's basically as though a brief pith instruction is being given to you, and you just sit down and do it. Or you can do it while you read it, almost.

CC: Yes, that's what our editor said: "It's amazing—it's all there." I know that very few of the 60-odd sections in your book have been previously translated into English. I'm wondering how you found the rest of these great texts. How did you come across Milarepa's instructions to Gampopa, with a commentary by the 8th Karmapa, for example? I don't believe that commentary has been seen before.

KB: No, I'm not sure it's even in his collected works anywhere. The song is pretty well known from Milarepa's biography, but the commentary by the 8th Karmapa is from that little booklet by the present Karmapa.

CC: Straight from the Heart contains a wonderfully broad range of material. You're following up something of deep interest to you personally?

KB: I started originally with major pieces that I found a little bit unconventional. My original idea was to present something that is non-sectarian, with a broader approach that goes to the heart of the matter and also encompasses tales of great masters—with each other or disciples—where there is a human touch to it, as opposed to standardized biographies, where everything is holy right from the very beginning. I like it when you can actually see a real person in the story. It developed from there into texts by more known people like Nagarjuna, Atisha, and the 13th Karmapa. For example, the two songs by Janggya Rolpe Dorje and the Sixth Sharmarpa—the whole style of them is quite special. They are basically mocking the cultures of all of their fellow Tibetan schools. I find that refreshing—when people talk straight.

CC: In the West we tend to resonate more with things that come without a predigested holiness.

KB: Yes, a lot of traditional biographies are almost standardized—you can just about predict what comes next. They sound very similar, and you don't get a feeling that there's a real person there.

CC: As you translated these pieces, did you find yourself surprised? There can be a certain wake-up value in the shock that accompanies surprise.

KB: That is certainly true. There are a lot of things you don't expect and that might bring your mind to a gap for a moment—or at least make you think—especially in some of the stories of Milarepa and his other disciples and also the stories and songs of Tangtong Gyalbo. They are human and surprising at the same time.

Some of the sections I translated talk very straight about what you can misunderstand or how you can go wrong or boast of doing the right thing while actually missing the point. Reading these is like letting some fresh air into encrusted traditions.

CC: It certainly feels that way. A number of these selections are songs arising out of enlightened experience. Have you been around teachers who have spontaneously expressed themselves in song and poetry?

KB: Yes, actually the major example is Khenpo Tsultrim Gyamtso. He does that all the time. Ponlop Rinpoche too; he does that more and more. It's kind of infectious.

CC: What does it feel like being on the receiving end, listening to something that emerges that way as opposed to the prose form?

KB: You have to listen closely, as it's usually very condensed. It's in a nutshell. The author presents a point that's usually geared toward the situation at hand—the audience—which is different for each occasion. So it's always unique, a singular event that you can't really repeat. The uniqueness of the time, the place, the situation all come together.

CC: I can't help but ask if you yourself have ever been moved to express yourself in that form?

KB: (laughs) Yes, I have actually. A number of times. Not that I got up and broke out into song. It was more that something came to mind. I wrote it out and might have read it to somebody later, but didn't say it on the spot, to a crowd.

CC: If something did come to you when you were in the middle of teaching to a crowd, would you ever permit yourself to open your mouth and let it come out spontaneously?

KB: It's hard to say. But if it would happen, sure, depending on the situation.

CC: In your preface you speak about how Buddhist teachers vary what they teach according to the developmental stage of the student. Have you ever noticed one of your teachers changing how they presented a specific point to you, as you matured?

KB: It's difficult to judge one's own maturation process. But I definitely have experienced them saying very, very different things at different times—not just to me but to everybody. And, really, what they say is tailored not only to the maturation process of the student but also to the specific situation. Khenpo Tsultrim Gyamtso Rinpoche is known for basically blowing your mind all the time. He tells you one thing, and then two days later the exact opposite. And then two days later again, he says he was just joking about both things. So, there's a lot of that going on. Many masters do that, actually.

CC: Do you find students get unnerved, when these truths that they want to hold as fixed, shift all the time?

KB: Sure. I think it's part of the game, the strategy. I think if people didn't care about things, there would be no point to pull the carpet out from under their feet. If it triggers an emotional response, then part of the game is that you're supposed to look at exactly that emotional response of yours.

CC: You called some of your selections in this book "outrageous." Which ones?

KB: Some of the life story events of the spiritual masters—like Rechungba, for example. I like his life story, because he's not always a good, obedient student. He obviously has a lot of emotional stuff to work with, and one can sense the human person. Also he does things that a good student shouldn't do—such as getting angry at his guru. Some of the things in these songs are very much in your face—pretty strong stuff, I find.

CC: A lot of people respond to this kind of refreshingly authentic material. After all, we are extremely complex beings.

KB: Sure. I find it's more appealing than more traditional things, for Westerners, who tend to like straight words rather than beating around the bush.

CC: In that spirit, you say that some of the texts convey very personal advice for life.

KB: The longer song by Tragba Gyaltsen I found very direct—almost like someone sitting in front of me and basically giving advice. It's about how to be honest with yourself and not try to fool yourself—in many different ways—and about how to view one's behavior in meditation.

CC: Did Khenpo Tsultrim Gyamtso point you towards a lot of the material? I know he once taught Karma Chakme's commentary on Machig Lobdron.

KB: He did not necessarily teach about many of these texts, but somehow I got a hold of xeroxes of a few of them in Tibetan. I found them years later in one of my folders.

CC: When the time was right.

KB: Almost like a terma, hidden away in my many folders. The process of finding the other pieces is different for each one. For example, Tibetan masters may quote just a few lines from certain texts, such as one by Janggya Rolpe Dorje, and I get intrigued to look at the whole thing. And it turns out to be great. Or I come across quotes that intrigue me in some of the texts I translated over the years, and when I have time look further into their whole context.

CC: Finding time must have been difficult, as you're a physician, right?

KB: Yes, I was trained as a physician, and have worked as a doctor for twenty years in Germany—but not full time. When other doctors went on holiday I took over as a replacement. In between I went to India and Nepal to study Tibetan and Buddhism. Every year I went for a few months.

CC: With whom did you study?

KB: Mainly with Khenpo Tsultrim Gyamtso and Ponlop Rinpoche. And in Germany with Khenpo Lama Thubten at Kamalshila Institute, a 5-year course in Buddhist philosophy.

CC: What made you decide to give up practicing medicine?

KB: Well, I had wished for quite a while to do more Tibetan translation and so forth—but you have to earn your money, I guess. So that was my money-earning leg, but then during the last six years somehow I got translation work on a regular basis and so I didn't have to do as much doctor work. Now I'm translating full-time.

CC: And now you're living in Seattle, and involved with Nalandabodhi, I hear—teaching, doing oral translations, and so forth. What have you been teaching?

KB: Most recently I have mainly been teaching from texts by the 3rd Karmapa—especially on distinguishing consciousness and wisdom buddha-nature.

CC: Why those?

KB: I like his view because he combines the two major mahayana traditions of India, without bias, and he doesn't get into the later Tibetan discombobulations between the two schools as to which is the better or higher one. I find that very refreshing.

More about the author . . .

Read an excerpt from Straight from the Heart, Karl Brunnholzl's latest book.

Karl Brunnhölzl has been a translator and interpreter since 1989; he is presently mainly involved with the Nitartha Institute as a teacher and translator. He lives in Seattle, WA.

Books by Karl Brunnholzl:

• The Center of the Sunlit Sky


• Straight from the Heart: Buddhist Pith Instructions